Thomas BRIGHTMAN

Discussion in 'Kent' started by Last Resort, Jul 8, 2016.

  1. Last Resort

    Last Resort Active Member

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    I am hoping for some help with this ancestor, my 4x g grandfather, especially from Bagfran and her one-name study of BRIGHTMAN.

    There were indeed several Thomas Brightmans in Sheppey in the 19th century but, as far as I know, this was the first of them. He was buried on 1st January 1846 in Minster in Sheppey, apparently aged 96. He would therefore have been born around 1750; as he reached the 1841 census, we know he was born outside Kent, although not where. His occupation in the census was Superannuated Warden (dockyard policeman).

    Thomas was living in Sheppey in 1782, when he married Ann GIBBS (not of Minster in Sheppey). They had numerous children (I can count up, if that helps!). I used to think that Thomas originated from Bedfordshire (Maulden perhaps), but now I am less sure of that. One clue that should lead us further back is a woman called Bridget BRIGHTMAN, who married Richard BARNES at Eastchurch, Sheppey in 1792, with Thomas as witness. Two children born to Thomas and Ann subsequently were named Bridget (1793) and Richard Barnes (1801). That suggests that Bridget was Thomas's sister or close cousin and her unusual name might help pin down our Thomas's origins. Richard BARNES remarried later (as a widower) but I have been unable to find a record of Bridget's death or burial, either in Sheppey or elsewhere.

    I'd be grateful for any ideas or information to get this one moving again.

    John
     
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  2. janetbooth

    janetbooth Top Dog Stalwart

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    I don't know if you have a copy of the PCC Will of your Thomas BRIGHTMAN which is available to view on Ancestry. I was hoping it might give some information re his siblings, but it only mentions his children, some of whom seem to have spread far and wide.

    Richard & Bridget BARNES look to have had at least 3 children all baptised at Eastchurch, namely John baptised 10 September 1792, Sophia baptised 14 January 1795 and Thomas baptised 14 October 1799. Given that Richard remarried in 1807, it does give us a short timescale as to Bridget's death, doesn't it, but like you I have so far been unable to come up with a burial record for her so far.

    I have found a newspaper article dated 30 June 1809 re the death of Richard BARNES of Eastchurch, Yeoman, asking for details of any creditors or debtors on his estate, but unfortunately no article re the death of first wife Bridget.

    Will keep looking though.

    Janet
     
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  3. Bagfran

    Bagfran Member

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    I'm sorry to say that I don't know any more than you do! Unfortunately, Thomas BRIGHTMAN - born around 1750 and buried 1846 (I have a date of death of 26/12/1845) - is also the end of my tree for the Sheppey Brightmans.

    I have substantial trees for all major regional concentrations of the name Brightman, but I do have some oddments that I can't currently fit in anywhere. For example, I have a Thomas BRIGHTMAN baptized in 1751 in Norwich - could he be the same man? It's perhaps a bit far away, but he's the only one I can find who was probably born at around the right time, and currently unaccounted for.

    What made you think our Thomas originally came from Maulden, Last Resort?

    I have also found a record for a Bridget BARNES, widow, marrying in 1810 in Deal, Kent. Was Bridget not actually dead when husband Richard remarried in 1807? Maybe it's a long shot!
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2016
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  4. Flook

    Flook A True Gentleman. Rest in Peace.

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    I wouldn't discount him at all. Up until 1750 Norwich was the second largest city in England after London and had a good, if slow, river link to Great Yarmouth from where Sheppey and the south would be easy to get to by sea transport.
     
  5. Bagfran

    Bagfran Member

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    That's a good point, Flook, thanks! I'll do some more digging and see if I can find more about this individual.
     
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  6. Sis

    Sis Rootles out resources!

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    FreeReg also has another baptised Kings Lynn, Norwich 1752.
     
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  7. Last Resort

    Last Resort Active Member

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    Thanks to all for the replies so far.

    Janet - you've been busy again with your archaeological trowel, digging round my ancestors for me! Yes, I have got Thomas's will and I've also got a photo of his Dockyard employment record, complete with a description (from TNA). I wondered whether Bridget had perhaps been buried back in her original home, but if we can't find that record it doesn't help much as a theory.

    Bagfran - I'd hoped that the name Bridget might provide the key: have you got any of those, anywhere? I'd also noticed that both Thomas and Bridget used the name Sophia for their children, perhaps in remembrance of their mother/sister/aunt. I'd got onto Maulden when I was young(er) and innocent and following too trustingly online trees! There certainly was a Thomas born around 1756 (bit late) but then I discovered that there was a name mix-up at baptism and that Thomas appeared still to be in Bedfordshire when our man was firmly established in Kent. Richard Barnes certainly claimed to be a widower when he remarried; as he did it on the Brightman doorstep, it seems unlikely to have been bigamous.

    Flook and Sis - I certainly have an eye on East Anglia for the solution of this. I believe that there are many more Norfolk records online than there were when I originally looked, so I really must give them a good scour. The most likely places seem to me to be London, East Anglia, Bedfordshire and perhaps as far as Nottinghamshire.

    John
     
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  8. janetbooth

    janetbooth Top Dog Stalwart

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    I have had a look on the Bedfordshire Name Index CD for likely baptisms of Bridget & Thomas. There is no baptism at all for a Bridget BRIGHTMAN and though there are baptisms for a Thomas BRIGHTMAN there are none c1750, a 1724 and a 1769 are the best I can come up with, both at Houghton Conquest. Also had a look on the Northamptonshire Baptismal Index and the nearest for a Thomas BRIGHTMAN is 1762 and nothing for a Bridget. Sorry, all negative again.

    Janet
     
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  9. Last Resort

    Last Resort Active Member

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    Thanks for keeping going, Janet. I think there is a Thomas in 1756 at Maulden, but he's probably indexed as Francis, which corresponds to the register. That Thomas was still in the parish in adulthood to get an entry in the register to the effect that he really was baptised Thomas. Odd, eh? But he's almost certainly too young for my Thomas.

    John
     
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  10. Bagfran

    Bagfran Member

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    Yes, I agree that the Thomas aka Francis is unrelated, and part of the Maulden group only (which are my lot!).

    I have no stray Bridgets (or Sophias) either I'm afraid.

    There are a couple of Thomases in Northampton whose fates I'm not currently sure about, but the birth years aren't promising (1723, 1770), but no history of the name Bridget or Sophia in these families.

    Sorry I'm not able to be much help on this!
     
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  11. Last Resort

    Last Resort Active Member

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    Thanks for checking Bagfran. If you should come across one of those more unusual names in the future, you know someone who would be very interested.;)
     
  12. Bagfran

    Bagfran Member

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    I will indeed let you know if I find out any more. I've actually emailed a Brightman contact I have who has shared a lot of his own research with me, asking if he might know any more about Bridget. So, fingers crossed!
     
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  13. Last Resort

    Last Resort Active Member

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    I'll keep my fingers crossed, but I won't hold my breath......o_O
     
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  14. Bagfran

    Bagfran Member

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    OK, I have some additional information, but nothing conclusive I'm afraid.

    This is the reply I received to my email, asking whether Bridget and Thomas could have been siblings, or otherwise closely related:

    "I have come to a similar conclusion, but having no proof, could not add her to my trees. I have a strong inkling that Thomas and Bridget originate from Yamouth. Family names were invariably handed down and there is a John Brightman t24.8.1690 son of Robert and Bridget (Yarmouth). Thomas b1749 and Ann had a dtr Sophia, who had 2 children out of wedlock - Elizabeth Ann t13.5.1808 and William t20.9.1811 - before Marrying William COVENEY 27.12.1814 (Chatham) from the 1861 Census."

    So, maybe we need to do some more digging around the possible Yarmouth connection?
     
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  15. Last Resort

    Last Resort Active Member

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    Ooooooooh! That is interesting! ;)

    I did say in #7 above that I still had my eye on East Anglia, and it could be that that will be the answer. I'm not sure I have the time to follow it up as vigorously as it deserves at present, but I will keep this reference and get onto it when things are easier. If you get there first, do share your findings.

    Many thanks!

    John
     

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