There's TWO of them!!

Discussion in 'General Family History Queries' started by Ferrfuzz, Sep 17, 2014.

  1. Ferrfuzz

    Ferrfuzz Active Member

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    After the marriage certificate of John MacCallion/Collins and Anne Colgan in 1842, there so far, appears no more Australian information or documentation using the name McCallion/MacCallion/McCallian/McCallan. I came across one document that had 3 members of the family on it and the surname had been spelt 3 different ways :eek:
    All property, land holdings, applications, and other documentation of legal title, (and newspapers) have the family members as Collins from late 1843.
    The only exception being Owens widow Anne Colgan, who I have found mentioned as Callan in 1855/56 (?) Though I have yet to confirm this, other than through elimination that it is her, and of course the ships record that fits the time frame - Thank You for that one:D
     
  2. spison

    spison Well-Known Member

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    Agreed! If they did marry the minister should have registered the marriage but as you are probably aware at this time transferring of records was fraught with difficulty - flood, theft (they probably would have travelled on the same coach as the gold shipments and this area was full of bushrangers), daeth of the carrier en route so short of reading EVERY remaining church record for this area, ... eww! If there was no Catholic priest appearing in the area, they may not have even dreamed of marrying in the Church of England as that would have been worse than anything else.
    Jane
     
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  3. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    This post has been bothering me for a good while.
    Here it says that Patrick had fathered maybe 2 children with his Eliza and when he died he had 6-8 children. However the newspaper report Friday 27/1/1871 states that he was known to a witness and the witness had said that he had left a widow and no children. That he was farmer and dairyman in Shellharbour.
    I am still a bit concerned that this Patrick is not your Patrick!
    There is another Patrick Collins who was an alderman in Shellharbour at the same time. Whether it is the same person I have no idea.
     
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  4. Ferrfuzz

    Ferrfuzz Active Member

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    What I have managed to find in the last couple of days is: Patrick Collins, (Convict), who has been 'melded' into existing information on My Patrick, fathered 2 children to Eliza Logan. The daughter;I was thinking FINALLY found something. Alas, it led to documents and articles etc regarding Eliza Logan/Collins remarrying after Patricks death. She was institutionalized as a difficult child, with the comment - Mother remarried. I haven't dug any deeper other than Eliza Logan went on to have several more children with her new husband

    I've done a lot of digging using aliases and alternative names that would fit with the naming patterns that are very common in my family line at the time, and still come up empty handed.
    I am leaning towards a few possibilities with Patrick, but it's a bit like being handed a garbage bag of multi coloured buttons, all the same size, and told to find the single solitary dark blue one which looks black until you take it out in sunlight....
     
  5. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    Yes... *I do believe that your Patrick Collins was indeed the alderman.
    I checked on Grevilles Post Office Directory for 1872 and found Mrs Collins, farmer, address 'Clear Hills'.
    Clear Hills was an area having a few properties owned by William Aldcorn who instigated the development of Shellharbour Council. One of his first aldermen was Patrick Collins.
    I have to go out for the most part of the day, however I will pick this up when I get home.
    One of the properties at Clear Hills was near the junction of Saltwater Creek and Minnamurra River. It was also known as 'Watsonia' and he leased it when he moved inland.
    Another thing I found was that William Aldcorn married a Caroline Chisolm Immigrant, so that could also be a start for your Eliza Dunn.

    Sue
     
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  6. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    Between 1842 and 1844 twenty three families had been settled on farming land at Shellharbour thanks to the philanthropy of Caroline Chilsolm.
    The land had been given to her by Robert Towns, to settle destitute immigrants.
    Further settlement by her in 1844 was not approved.
     
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  7. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    Going through my own notes I find that my own GGGrandfather George Knight and his son Joseph also took up the offer on arrival in 1844 to work as carpenters on Robert Towns estate, Peterborough, at Shellharbour.
    They built the school and a few sheds on the property and then moved onto Jamberoo and later Bulli.
     
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  8. spison

    spison Well-Known Member

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    This is good thinking and finding AM! And here am I thinking that Patrick was a bit of a lad! (Not that being an alderman means that he was an angel of course!) However, if Patrick was an alderman why wasn't it mentioned in the inquest (Hating to rain on your parade here) and why isn't there any findable obituary?

    Caroline Chisolm had a lot to do with the Maitland area too.

    Jane
     
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  9. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    Shellharbour Council first came into being in 1859 and he was of the first 6 or 7 aldermen. I have no idea why there was nothing about his death. Maybe others, including William Aldcorn had moved on and maybe he wasn't in favour anymore. But it seems to me that he was the dairyman and farmer mentioned and that the Mrs Collins from Clear Hills is his lady.
    I did wonder why no publicity though, but it all makes sense it my head :rolleyes:
    Maybe there is no obituary because of his dalliance with the mysterious 'Mrs Collins' :rolleyes:
     
  10. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    Some one just rained on my parade:( Thanks Jane!!!!!
    Alderman Collins is mentioned in the Illawarra Mercury on 11 July 1871 :(:(
    Patrick Collins died in the previous January.
    Back to the drawing board.
    B U T. It still could be Mrs Collins of Clear Creek who is the lady we are after:)
    Yes?

    Clear Creek? Where did I get that from. I meant Clear Hills!
     
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  11. Ferrfuzz

    Ferrfuzz Active Member

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    Clear Creek would more likely be the Collector (NSW) cluster I've found. I haven't got to digging around to be more precise. I came across a Mrs Collins interred @ Collector Cemetery. Loosely connected to Gundagai 'Collins' who are part of my own branch of the Collins and some cousins from Bega Valley..
    I need a bigger cork board for pinning bits of paper to with some order :rolleyes:
    I will go through the notes and find the dates and names.
     
  12. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    My head thought Clear Hills but my fingers typed Clear Creek. You won't find Clear Hills, Shellharbour on any map. I've looked.
    Clear Hills at Shellharbour is the area we are after and there are a number of names appearing on the Greville's Post Office 1872 for Shellharbour living at Clear Hills, including Mrs Collins. Whether it is the one we are after I don't know.
    But I do have a suggestion or two. Maybe get the transcription of Patrick Collins death (1871) or contact the Illawarra Family History Group. They offer help on-line for those who have ancestors in that area via a blog.
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2014
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  13. spison

    spison Well-Known Member

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    And it was such a good plan AM. Back to thinking of Patrick being a lad and Eliza being a bit of a miss. (Sorry Ferrfuzz! I really do think that they might be grey rather than black sheep!)
    I photographed Collector cemetery so it is on the Australian Cemeteries Index and the Mrs Collins is probably Mary and the Eliza Collins was her daughter and therefore not a married woman (according to the headstone). If you do want an image from Collector just ask and you won't get the ACI watermark on the shot. I've still got my originals.
    Jane
     
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  14. Ferrfuzz

    Ferrfuzz Active Member

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    Shellharbour however may provide information on the 'missing years' between 1842/3 until late 1850's that so far very little information has been found for the family.
    That sounds awesome:) I think I need to spend a few days re-sorting my notes. A few from my original information have now proven not to be part of the family. Some are part of the family but attached to the wrong branch. And a lot of new additions who were either the wrong name or location. So it's time for another big sort out, to maintain a distinct path:cool: And form the new "file" --confirmed misdirection--
    Alderman however does fit with the sort of work and status most of the siblings had. John (the eldest) was an overseer on properties and land being developed for farming. Phillip was doing similar kinds of work. The brothers we have a bit of information and stories on, all appear to have taken on labouring work and quickly appointed to higher roles with their work ethics, commitment, and knowledge/skills.
     
  15. Ferrfuzz

    Ferrfuzz Active Member

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    Hehehehe... It gets that way when dealing with multiple similar places and names. As you can see I did the same even though you corrected yourself :rolleyes:
    I have found 2(and a possible 3rd) Mrs Eliza Collins - widow - deceased estates; that I am going to chase up.
    I have
    *Eliza Collins, Mortdale, 15/02/1928 (though think this one may be too old)
    *Eliza Collins,North Sydney 7/01/1900, and
    *EA Collins, Paddington, 29/09/1913

    Illawarra Family History group is looking like a good idea too:oops:
     
  16. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    Have just been to the little cemetery at Candelo mentioned in an earlier post. Quite by accident we virtually tripped over a whole group of Collins graves. My memory was jogged back to life and I remembered someone a while ago was looking at the family of a Patrick Collins. Bingo, sure enough my memory was correct. I now have almost an album full of Collins grave photos from Candelo.
    Will pm you Furrfuzz in case you would like copies
    We did take quite a lot of notice of the sign at the gate. 'Beware venomous snakeS in the area' :eek:
     
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  17. Sis

    Sis Rootles out resources!

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    What a memory AM!!!!:)
     
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  18. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    It doesn't help me recall what I ate for dinner last night:(
     
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  19. Ma-dotcom

    Ma-dotcom A Bonza Little Digger!

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    # 96
    Great trip tho', A.M.
     
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  20. Ma-dotcom

    Ma-dotcom A Bonza Little Digger!

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    Now that's tragic, what if
    it was THE recipe of the month?

    Do you also have the problem of forgetting who you were looking for when you change web sites?
     
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