On 24/8/1858 John George [bachelor] married Margaret Davies [spinster] at the Register Office district of Merthyr Tydfil. Can anyone suggest why? I have little experience of Welsh research (this is for my cousin's wife). Was it, perhaps, that other branches of religion practised in Wales also would require a marriage outside the parish church?
You have the certificate and it definitely says "Married in the Register Office"? I ask that because it has been known for people to see the Superintendent Registrar's signature and not look any further! Leaving Jews and Quakers on one side, in 1858 you could marry in the parish church or in a registered nonconformist chapel or in the register office. Marriage in a nonconformist chapel at that time required the chapel itself to be registered and for the registrar to be present to register the marriage. Perhaps their chosen place of worship wasn't registered or perhaps they weren't very religious.
Thank you Peter, yes I do have the cert and not only does it say "at the Register Office" but the words "according to the rites and ceremonies" are crossed through, it is signed by both the Registrar (Morgan Williams) and the Superintendent Registrar (H W Harris). You could well be right that their chosen chapel was not registered (thank you for the explanation, I have learned something new).
Do you have their baptisms ...I have a marriage that was at the register office and after that 3 of the children all in their 20s were baptized ...I have always thought it was because when my grandfathers sister married she hadn't been baptized so she couldn't marry in Church....
You do not need to have been baptised to marry in the Church of England (or the Church in Wales). It's part and parcel of having an Established Church.
Thanks for that...Emily my grandfathers sister was the one who married at the register office....after her marriage she my grandfather John and an older brother James were all baptized ...this was the only answer we could come up with as to WHY my great grandparents suddenly had them baptized together in their 20s...this was in the late 1800s...were the rules still the same then?
People do not necessarily make logical decisions and may base them on incorrect assumptions. Think of surname changes and think of the crises of conscience some of our ancestors had about their "proper" surnames.
That's a very polite way of saying we assumed that was why they were baptised late...you are quite correct...Emily was registered as Patience and on the 1st census she was as such after that she was called Emily exactly the same age...her 1st child she didn't register but had him baptised then gave him to her sister ...she claimed him as her son on census until the 1911 when she had to admit he was her nephew...maybe it was because their mother was a Romany Gypsy...what was in their minds we can only wonder about....thank you for putting me right....
Over the years I've formed the impression that Romanies were a bit indifferent about registering births, never mind the law. As for first names changing, that seemed a pretty common occurrence, it certainly was in my great aunt's siblings, one of her sisters was named Sylvester, believe it or not, she changed her name, not that I blame her, from memory so did at least a couple of brothers. Just out of interest, I'll have to lookup those notes I know I have them safe on my computer. I don't have any ancestors of Romany blood, I've often thought it would be great to have at least one, add a bit of colour to my lot. Sorry for going a bit off piste.
It's interesting having Romany ancestors...we have one of the famous families of the name Pidgley...spelt several ways...they were hawkers selling baskets and basket chairs...they wintered in the New Forrest where there were plenty of Willow Trees and made their goods in the Winter...traveling all over southern England...my dad followed his grandmothers way of life for a time..working in a Circus as the lion tamers assistant then in Funfairs as a bare knuckle boxer... Surprisingly quite a few served in the Army...in the late 1800s they started to settle in houses...but some couldn't give up the traveling life and went on to sell birds...we have one death in the 1900s where he died in a Martello Tower...this is completely away from the original post so I hope I am forgiven but thought you might be interested....
I would think that, if a Victorian couple opted to be married in a registry office, it would often have been because they were from different religious denominations - in that sense, a registry office would have been regarded as "neutral ground". There would have been considerable pressure to have married within one's own church or chapel, and some denominations may actually have refused to allow a mixed marriage to have take place.
I've just been reading a novel, set in more recent times with characters who married in a registry office. Reason being, both participants had few if any relations & or friends to take up time & space in a Church, which may be needed by others. [time off work also required ] I wonder if same may have applied 'back then'?
Might be interested? You are kidding! Would love to read all about your Romany's as I'm sure others would also. Not off piste, just a small request to Lusmum
Count me in. I've actually been inside a Romany caravan, although it was a modern caravan not the old traditional Romany caravan, it was absolutely spick and span, it was full of brass and copper ornaments and did they shine. The owners were working with a fair that came to Chelmsford, somehow a guy I knew had made friends with the Romany couple who owned the Caravan and he got permission for me to have a look. I was around 17 at the time and never set foot in a caravan before, never mind a Romany one, so it was interesting from all aspects.
Me too. It sounds very interesting. I think it has always been easier to marry in a registry office. It is easy to ask for witnesses too. This would also cover the lack of relatives. If they were of full age it could then be a fait accompli. I also have a few ancestors who married in registry offices too.
Another possibility for the choice of marrying in a Registry Office might be down to the cost when compared with a church ceremony. My great grandmother was widowed when she married my great grandfather, and she had 3 children. Both had been baptised in the C of E.
