15 Century Records

Discussion in 'Cheshire' started by June Ferguson, Jan 25, 2015.

  1. Steve Bumstead

    Steve Bumstead Well-Known Member

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    I'm trying to work my way through the will - it is very tricky in places. First of all, I can't identify the abode of Thomas. It looks like: "Eld?ten in the d?th Gloc. (Abbreviation Mark)", clothier. His first bequest is to his wife, Agnes and son William. Agnes may be one of the executors named in the probate (the other is son Arthur). They receive several properties including a dwelling house, Tucking Mill and a property at Hawkesbury (unfortunately no counties are mentioned).
    Other named family members are: sons, Edmund, Robert, Peter and John; daughter Syomyse (?). Nephew (brother's son) Thomas; sister, Agnes. A Joan Crewe, no relationship stated. He seems to appoint Agnes and William as Executors with Arthur and a Thomas Trappe as Overseers, but the probate is granted to Agnes and Arthur.
     
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  2. Daft Bat

    Daft Bat Administrator. Chief cook & bottle washer! Staff Member

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    Have you been in contact with the church at all? You never know, with him being such an important member of the Parish, he may well have some sort of memorial in the church itself - as long as it dates from then.
     
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  3. Huncamunca

    Huncamunca The Knowledgeable One

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    It is hard work isn't it! The placename may end in -ley though that doesn't narrow it down much, given how frequent that ending is. I think the next bit may be dioc[ese] of Gloc [i.e. Gloucester] but not sure. I will keep puzzling over it.

    If Thomas's tucking mill was in Gloucestershire then there may be more about it in Jennifer Tann's excellent book, Gloucestershire Woollen Mills. Unfortunately I can't lay my hands on my copy at the moment.

    P.S. on p.2, lines 4-6 [I am looking at the PCC version] it says
    'my dwelling howse and Tucking myll . . . wyche I nowe have . . . within the lordship(?) of Alderley aforesaid'.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2015
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  4. June Ferguson

    June Ferguson New Member

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    William son of Thomas lived in New Mills, Alderley, so it could be that. You have now provided me with more family members I did not know about to add to my tree. Arthur my direct decendant founded the Kilcote branch of the family. Thomas Crew moved from Cheshire to Gloucestershire and I am hoping I can go further back in the Cheshire line.
    Have not been in touch with the church but will have a look to see if I can find out how old the church is.
    I am being a bit thick and new to all this but what is PCC?
     
  5. June Ferguson

    June Ferguson New Member

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    Have found a second hand copy of Jennifer Tann's book Gloucestershire Woollen Mills so have ordered that, due for delivery in about 10 days.
     
  6. Steve Bumstead

    Steve Bumstead Well-Known Member

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    June, I think you may be confusing two Alderleys. The Crewes lived in Alderley, Gloucestershire - a village just north of Hawkesbury. I've yet to look fully at it but son William left a PCC will (1567) - he had a son named Arthur too and lived at Alderley.
    @Huncamunca - thanks, I can see dioc. now and I think the place name is Eldrley ie. Alderley
     
  7. Huncamunca

    Huncamunca The Knowledgeable One

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    Oops sorry, I was too lazy to spell it out. It is short for the Prerogative Court of Canterbury. Before 1858, probate was dealt with by ecclesiastical courts. There was a hierarchy of these, with the supreme one being the PCC.

    PCC wills are available online in various places, including Ancestry.

    (I hope you find the Jennifer Tann book useful! Having tried to research a handful of mills myself, I am astonished by the amount of work that must have gone into that book.)
     
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  8. June Ferguson

    June Ferguson New Member

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    I am on Ancestry so will take a look, many thanks.
     
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  9. Daft Bat

    Daft Bat Administrator. Chief cook & bottle washer! Staff Member

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    June - you may also find this Article of help with the history thereof. :)
     
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  10. Huncamunca

    Huncamunca The Knowledgeable One

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    I eventually got to where she was mentioned. Might she be Dyonyse? (I can't immediately find another similar capital 'D' to back up that suggestion, though.)
     
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  11. mugwortismy cat

    mugwortismy cat Tenacious to the End!

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    OK, I was skimming through the Gloucester archives one when I sent off my quick message this morning to let you know I hadn't forgotten you. I'd ignored the intro and tried to find the juicy interesting bits, and it now turns out to be the wrong one :oops: ... perhaps it is just as well that things kept getting in the way of me sitting down with it :rolleyes:

    If Steve and Huncamunca are now on the case, maybe I can retire gracefully and rest my eyes o_O
     
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  12. June Ferguson

    June Ferguson New Member

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    Think the suggestion of Dyonyse could be right, have seen the name spely slightly different a couple of hundred years after this.
    Have tried to look at the PCC on Ancestry and I have no chance of reading any of it. Can only just make out the larger letters. So would be grateful to anyone who could give me any information from the will.
     
  13. June Ferguson

    June Ferguson New Member

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    Have just tried to read the will on Ancestry and I have no chance, gave myself a headache trying so would be most grateful to anyone who can find information from the will.
    I think Dyonyse could be right, have seen this name spelt different a couple of hundred years later.
     
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  14. Huncamunca

    Huncamunca The Knowledgeable One

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    You don't escape that easily, muggy! Please feel free to do as much as you would like to do . . . with the amount of work I've got on at the moment, I shouldn't have allowed myself to get side-tracked onto this one, especially as you were already working on it. I shall be happy just to lurk and to attempt to advise if back-up is needed. :)
     
  15. Steve Bumstead

    Steve Bumstead Well-Known Member

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    Huncamunca said:
    I eventually got to where she was mentioned. Might she be Dyonyse? (I can't immediately find another similar capital 'D' to back up that suggestion, though.)

    I'm sure you're right. Sorry can't seem to quote on an iPad - anyone any ideas how to? See thread here re iPad - Doug.

    I would be willing to have a go at a transcription but am snowed under at the moment with FreeReg work. If I find the time, Jane, I'll try a summary next week
    Steve
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 31, 2015
  16. June Ferguson

    June Ferguson New Member

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    Thanks Steve, any help is greatly appreciated.
     
  17. mugwortismy cat

    mugwortismy cat Tenacious to the End!

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    I was obviously over confident with my offer of help, since I did alright with Chimp's will the other week, I thought I could do it ... but no I admit I have come down with a bump, I am really struggling with this one ... :(

    It may be that my mind is too full of the Street family in London and the Baggs family in New South Wales, whatever, don't rely on me to do anything useful ...

    I will keep peering at it every now and again in case things suddenly click into place ... it's open on my desktop
     
  18. Huncamunca

    Huncamunca The Knowledgeable One

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    Don't feel bad about it, muggy. I had to go on a good, but rather gruelling, course on Tudor & Stuart handwriting before I could even attempt to tackle such things. Lately I've been working mostly on 18th century documents and have got very out of practice on earlier handwriting. I think it would take me ages and much eye strain to transcribe the whole of Thomas Crewe's will so I'm very glad Steve has offered to do a summary.
     
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  19. Steve Bumstead

    Steve Bumstead Well-Known Member

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    Hi June,

    here is my attempt at a digest of the will of Thomas Crewe. I've modernised most of the spelling and will admit I'm not too happy with all the place-names. I had trouble with the word before "Barnes" - it looks for all the world like "teaching", but from what I've seen from a later will I think it should be "Tithing". I've omitted all the standard formulaic stuff.

    Thomas' wife Agnes died in 1560 and her will was proved 25th July (PCC also) - it's much easier to read. She was presumably the second wife of Thomas - her maiden name was Nichols. She makes William Crewe her "son-in-law"(i.e. step son) her executor and also refers to Robert Crewe, her son.

    The will of William Crewe (PCC, 1567) looks likely to be that of Thomas' eldest son, but there is one problem - he refers to a brother, Nicholas Crewe who appears in neither Thomas nor Agnes will. Otherwise, some of the properties have the same name and he refers to the "two tething barnes" which could be ones in the 1551 will. He has children, Agnes, Margaret, Wenefrede, Arthur, Thomas and Matthew (who is appointed executor along with William's wife)
    Steve

    Will of Thomas Crewe


    20th March 1551, I Thomas Crewe of Elderley in the dioc. of Gloc. clothier being..

    First I assign to Alice my wife and my son William Crewe my dwelling house and Tucking myll with all singular such house and grounds with their appurtenances belonging thereunto ..within the lordship of Alderley .. all that then shall remayn of ..my Indenture and Lease made of the same

    Item I assign to wife and son William the teachinge [tithing?] Barnes of Uppton and Stoke being within the lordship of Hawkysburye

    Item I assyne to wife and son a certeyn pasture grounde called Lincombe, lease called pearcyes lease, meade called park meade and a grounde called Stanley lyinge within the lordshippe of Hawkisburye (from day of his deathduring term of indenture)

    Assign to wife and son an acre of arable lying in the common fields of tresham (?) in the parish of Hawkesbury and a close containing by estimation 3 acres in the tithing of Stoke in parish of Hawkesbury (from death to end of term) If wife dies or marries all to go to William and his heirs male. If William dies before end of terms of leases without heirs male - all to go to my son Edmund Crewe & his heirs male. Then to son, Robert Crewe & his heirs.

    Assign to son Edmund Crewe certain meadow pasture called lo(??)wood and a sheppehouse lying within said meadow in Hawkesbury from day of death to end of lease.

    Assign to son Robert Crewe house and ground and appurtenances in Hiesley Gedyllwoode

    Give to son Edmund Crewe £200 upon probate

    Give to son Robert Crewe ? (one?) hundred pounds at marriage or at age of 21

    Give to daughter Dyonyse Crewe £100 on marriage or age of 21

    Give to son Arthur Crewe tenne pounds of the fourtie pounds which he oweth me and the rest which is £30 to pay unto Thomas Willys £10, to Thomas Summing (?) to my son Peter Crewe £10

    Give to son Peter Crewe the tenne pounds which he oweth me

    Give to son John Crewe £47 which he oweth me

    Give to son-in-law John Coke (or Cole?) £40 which he oweth me

    Give to Thomas Crewe my brother’s son £6 13s 4d

    Give to his siter Agnes Crewe £6 13s 4d

    Give to Joan Crewe £6 13s 4d

    Give to every mayde sh***nce dwelling in my house on the day of my death twenty shillings

    Give to every of pretice twenty shillings

    “I give to Samuell fourtie shillings”

    Give to Gyles Baldon 20 shillings

    Give to John Horsman 10 shillings

    Rest of my goods to wife and son William

    Wife Agnes and son William to be executors

    Overseers son Arthur Crewe and Thomas Trappe pson (parson?) of Harley (?)

    Witnesses: Richard Colwell, Arthur Crewe, Thomas Trappe



    Probate granted London 13th May 1551 to William Crewe and Agnes Crewe
     
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  20. Steve Bumstead

    Steve Bumstead Well-Known Member

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    I forgot to add that there is an interesting site which you may have already seen - hale-genealogy.com - set up by David Hale. It includes much on the Crewes of Hawkesbury. It seems the story of "coming out of Cheshire" comes from a Visitation in 1623. No doubt by then the Crewes were established gentry. It would be worth getting hold of the Visitation to see if there is anything further, but I guess Davis has extracted what he could

    Steve
     
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