1841 census help please

Discussion in 'British Census' started by Sis, Apr 25, 2017.

  1. Sis

    Sis Rootles out resources!

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    I have found the following family in the 1851 census in Liverpool HO107, Piece 2177, Folio 27, Page 4. Though Jane and their daughter Jane are written as Jean, I put that down to maybe Thomas told the enumerator their names and with his Scottish accent Jane sounded like Jean. They were to sail from Liverpool later that year to New York.

    I can't find them in the 1841 though. They were married in Stepney in 1834.

    Thomas Moffat Scott born c1809 Selkirk, Scotland - Baker
    Jane Munroe Scott born c1815 Rotherhithe, Surrey
    John Scott born c1836 Rotherhithe, Surrey
    Jane Scott born c 1838 St Clements, Middlesex
     
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  2. Bay Horse

    Bay Horse Can be a bit of a dark horse

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    Daughter Helen's place of birth in 1851 is given as St. Giles, Middlesex, born about 1842, so they were probably still in that area for the '41 census.

    Will carry on looking.
     
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  3. Daft Bat

    Daft Bat Administrator. Chief cook & bottle washer! Staff Member

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    Without studying a map as my knowledge of London/Middlesex parishes and areas is not 100% ;), it is worth bearing in mind that some places are missing from the 1841 census for a variety of reasons.

    These are the ones in Middlesex:
    St Luke
    West Finsbury
    Golden-Lane
    Old Street
    Whitecross-Street
    Paddington
    Kensington (part)
    Brompton
    Kensall Green (part)
     
  4. Sis

    Sis Rootles out resources!

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    Thank you ladies:)
     
  5. Bay Horse

    Bay Horse Can be a bit of a dark horse

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    My knowledge of London/Middlesex is poor also. Jane and Helen's births were registered Strand Union district, mmn Ross. The Scotts are starting to make me a little bleary-eyed... :)
     
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  6. Sis

    Sis Rootles out resources!

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    It fair made my head spin trying to find them:eek:
     
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  7. MollyMay

    MollyMay Knows where to find the answers!

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    Mine too - I also failed:headbang:
     
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  8. Flook

    Flook A True Gentleman. Rest in Peace.

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    Well I've found something although not the census entry. My lot were in St Clement Danes in the 1840's and extraordinarily 5 entries down from my Elizabeth is an Ellen Scott.

    Details from FMP's Westminster Baptism collections are:

    St Clement Danes, 20th February 1842: Ellen, daughter of Thomas Moffat & Jane Scott of 15 Lumber Court. Father's occupation; Baker.


    ...and then there is this>

    St Clement Danes, 18th October 1840: Helen, daughter of Thomas Moffat & Jane Scott of 24 White Horse Yard. Father's occupation; Baker.

    I'll keep scouting around.
     
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  9. Flook

    Flook A True Gentleman. Rest in Peace.

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    Just found this>

    St Clement Danes, 25th December 1837: Jane Emma, daughter of Thomas & Jane Scott of 28 Holywell Street. Father's occupation; Baker.
     
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  10. Flook

    Flook A True Gentleman. Rest in Peace.

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    There doesn't seem to be an obvious burial for Ellen in St Clement Danes Parish.

    I haven't checked my maps yet, but the parishes of St Clement Danes and St Giles in the Fields, which have a common boundary, both have networks of 'rookery'-type alleyways and courts which might account for Bay Horses's find that Helen's birthplace was in St Giles' parish (post 2). On the other hand the family could easily have moved just a short way away for a time for that to be correct.
     
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  11. Bay Horse

    Bay Horse Can be a bit of a dark horse

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    Ellen Scott registered 1842 Q2 St. Giles in the Fields and St. George Bloomsbury, otherwise Bloomsbury.
     
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  12. Flook

    Flook A True Gentleman. Rest in Peace.

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    Well I've found Lumber Court and it was in the parish of St Giles in the Fields. It's what is now called Tower Court between West Street and Tower Street near Seven Dials (see Stanford's 1864 Map http://london1864
    DOTcom/stanford20b.htm
    and compare with any modern street map)

    White Horse Yard was almost directly over the road from The Theatre Royal Drury Lane and in the parish of St Clement Danes.

    The whole Lumber Court area was one of the very worst 'rookeries' in London at the time (and that's saying something!) and so it would be easy for a single family to be missed. On the other hand I've looked at the census pages and some of them are virtually illegible and so the Scott's may be there but very hard to identify.
     
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  13. Flook

    Flook A True Gentleman. Rest in Peace.

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    Well this is one of those conundrums we come across. There is a Burial for an Ellen Scott of Lumber Court in St Giles in the Fields 27 December 1840. She was 1 year 1 month old.

    It's not so unusual for a family to baptise another child with the same name if an earlier one had died and this may be the explanation.

    P.S. I'd better not tell you that there is also a burial for an Ellen Scott of York Place in St Giles on 3rd October 1847 and that her age was 5 years 6 months.

    My head is now spinning a bit so that makes 3 of us so far!!! :).


     
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  14. Londoner

    Londoner Will always roll up her sleeves and dig around

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    Got them!
    Piece 673, Book: 19, Folio: 41, Page Number: 75 at Lumber Court
    Immediately below Julia Donovan. Thomas has been transcribed as John, Jane as Jas and there is an older woman, possibly his his mother, but not b Scotland, Mary age 60. The Scott looks like it has been over written but his occupation is clearly baker and place of birth S
     
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  15. Londoner

    Londoner Will always roll up her sleeves and dig around

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    Finds like this remind me how useful the address search at the Genealogist can be.
     
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  16. Bay Horse

    Bay Horse Can be a bit of a dark horse

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    Oh, well done you! :)

    I've seen that census page so many times today... it just didn't click. Of course it's obvious now that you mention it.
     
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  17. Flook

    Flook A True Gentleman. Rest in Peace.

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    Oh well done Londoner. Like Bay Horse I've looked at that page a couple of times today but nothing lit up up top!!

    Wow - that was a good hunt :).
     
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  18. Bay Horse

    Bay Horse Can be a bit of a dark horse

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    It was! :)
     
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  19. Sis

    Sis Rootles out resources!

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    Thank you all so very much! Also well done Londoner, I don't think I would ever have found them. So pleased too that you all enjoyed the hunt!:D
     
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  20. Archie's Mum

    Archie's Mum Always digging up clues

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    Shame I wasn't around for the hunt @Sis...:D
     
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