Battle of Waterloo Medals

Discussion in 'British Army' started by Findem, Jun 11, 2014.

  1. Findem

    Findem The Fearless One. Rest in Peace.

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    Just checked my records and I do have the marriage of Joseph and Lucy as 24 May 1831, so apologies for my error. :oops::rolleyes:
     
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  2. RachelW

    RachelW New Member

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    As to the June 30 1816 baptisms ---- SEAX has:

    William and Sarah born to Robert Harris and wife Sarah (nee Snelleck)

    and

    Samuel Harris born to William and Elizabeth Harris

    It is definitely Sarah Snelleck and not Elizabeth as was cited elsewhere I think.

    Sooooo William and Elizabeth Hoy--- as Samuel's parents? Now more likely as William born 1768 seems to be too young to pull father duties for Samuel--- especially if Samuel was born in 1784 and not 1789

    and FWIW, Seeing Joseph Turner's name as a witness to Joseph Harris's wedding reinforces my hunch that the Turner and Harris siblings intermarried.

    Rachel
     
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  3. Findem

    Findem The Fearless One. Rest in Peace.

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    Just to muddy the water a tad more. :)

    What we know so far is:-

    When Samuel was baptised in 1816 his year of birth was stated as 1789.

    His age given when buried in 1841 was stated to be 57 therefore born about 1784.

    I've been plagued by the thought that were both of those birth years correct, if as we suspect he was the son of William Harris and his wife Elizabeth Hoy, there is a gap of just over five years between William and Elizabeth's first and second children. The first child William was baptised 13 Nov 1768 and the second (known) child Elizabeth, was baptised 23 Feb 1774, leaves me wondering if Samuel might have been born between 1768 and 1774. :confused:
     
  4. Findem

    Findem The Fearless One. Rest in Peace.

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    Quite agree with the above Rachel, I'd like a pound (or a $) for every marriage where a groom married a sister's friend or vice versa. Didn't work for me, my sister is 8 years younger than me so her friend were too young, or so I thought in my bachelor days, married a girl 6 years younger than me though. :rolleyes: :cool: :D
     
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  5. RachelW

    RachelW New Member

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    Well unfortunately, without baptism records and/or the father's occupation, connecting the dots is more of a problem. I think 1784 the more likely date for Samuel. I am fortunate that my 2x great-grandfather, John lists his father Samuel Harris as a fishmonger on his wedding licence.

    Of note also, is I have no baptism record for John Harris yet either. So of the 3 suspected siblings, only Joseph lacks any documentation tying him in. Also, when father Samuel is baptised why didn't John (or Joseph, for that matter) get baptised too?

    So Findem, the William born in 1768 is now seen as a sibling to Samuel in 1784 (16 years his senior) ?

    Finally, SEAX has a daughter Bridget born to Elizabeth and William Harris Feb 20, 1803 at GC. So she may turnout to be William Harris the younger's daughter?

    Lots to work through as always. :)

    A thought, comparing your DNA with that of another known Samuel Harris descendant should help solve things too.

    Rachel
     
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  6. Findem

    Findem The Fearless One. Rest in Peace.

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    Yes that's how I see it.

    Again that's how I see it.

    Hadn't thought about DNA.

    I think you're very lucky to not have Joseph Harris C1807/9 as an ancestor he's proved to be a pain. It's possible that John and Joseph simply slipped through the net and never were baptised, or perhaps baptised in another parish. Samuel, being an Officer's Servant, would have to follow that officer to wherever he was posted which could see the family living in several parishes, perhaps John and Joseph were baptised in one of those parishes. We have to keep in mind the fact that Coggeshall folk tended to be tardy in having children baptised at St Peter ad Vincular. Their attitude makes me wonder if it was a leaning towards nonconformism responsible for their resistance to baptism at St Peters or was there personal antagonism towards the clergy.

    i think I'm going to have to bite the bullet and link Joseph to Samuel, I haven't found any other likely Harris parents in Coggeshall, not altogether comfortable with that decision so I'll watch out for any other possibilities.
     
  7. Findem

    Findem The Fearless One. Rest in Peace.

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    Forgot to mention that whilst trawling the burials on the Coggeshall Museum transcripts I noticed the burial of a retired militia officer, wondering if this was the officer Samuel was working for. Have to go in and search again, noted it in a hurry on a scrap of paper and now can't find it.
     
  8. RachelW

    RachelW New Member

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    Yes possible but we'd need something tying the two together. I am a strong supporter of the Joseph Turner is John's older brother theory. The marriage witness the fact that Joseph Turner marries Emma Harris --- a known sister to John --- and that Joseph Harris marries Lucy Turner--- a known sister to Joseph Turner AND that "Little" Coggeshall is cited as the Turner's and Joseph's and Samuel's place of residence --- well, it's verystrong "suggestive" evidence at the very least.

    And if a DNA test were conducted... :)

    Rachel
     
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  9. Daft Bat

    Daft Bat Administrator. Chief cook & bottle washer! Staff Member

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    The DNA Diagnostics Centre might be able to help. ;)
     
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  10. RachelW

    RachelW New Member

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    :)
     
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  11. Findem

    Findem The Fearless One. Rest in Peace.

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    Don't you have to bear the name, in this case Harris, to prove a link?

    I think I saw something in a Dalton family magazine which suggested you need to descend from a male of the name, perhaps I am not recalling the article correctly.
     
  12. Findem

    Findem The Fearless One. Rest in Peace.

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    Hi Rachel (and anyone else interested),

    Looking in my Spares Database the other day I found I had recorded (years ago) the birth and baptism of a William Harris 1747 (father of Samuel?) at Coggeshall, parents Robert and Elizabeth, that was from the Coggeshall PRs during a visit to the UK.

    Found on the Coggeshall Museum transcripts the marriage of Robert Harris to Elizabeth Teat alias Holland 1738.

    On Free Reg I found two more children of Robert and Elizabeth both born and baptised at Gt Coggeshall, Elizabeth 1739 and John 1741. Strangely enough couldn't find William 1747 on Free Reg, not even with the Soundex box ticked.

    Have you got those?
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2014
  13. Genejeannie

    Genejeannie New Member

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    Just joined, and wanted to suggest that an officer's servant could still be a soldier, eg a batman.
     
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  14. Ma-dotcom

    Ma-dotcom A Bonza Little Digger!

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    Welcome in Genjeanie, nice to see you here.
     
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  15. Findem

    Findem The Fearless One. Rest in Peace.

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    Welcome Genjeanie, you must be clairvoyant! A couple of days ago I was looking at that Harris Family Group Sheet and wondering if that could be the case, it would make more sense. I suppose there's a chance Samuel Harris could be on some sort of military list.
     
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  16. 348 White

    348 White Member

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    Looks like the 33rd Foot might be relevant. Pvt Samuel Harris of the 33rd Foot served in no 8 company in 1815 and an address is supplied of Church Street, Coggeshall. The 33rd were very scrupulous in the awarding of Waterloo medals and as Harris served as a batman and is recorded as 'not in action' he was not awarded with one. His wife and children were probably not on the battlefield itself on the 18th as the 'baggage' had been ordered to a safer area of the theatre a few days earlier. That said the 33rd's baggage, like others, was caught up in a commotion as rumours of defeat caused panic and flight along the road; added to which the Netherlands gendarmes, decided to clear the roads of obstacles and vehicles in a no-nonsense manner. All bar one waggon of the 33rd seem to have been looted, and a soldier's letter mentions the plundering of the women campfollowers.
     
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  17. 348 White

    348 White Member

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    Adding to the info I just posted above, at this point in the British army's history they differentiated between an officer servant who looked after his officer's meals, pitched his tent, cleaned his kit etc and a bat man who would look after baggage animals and vehicles that belonged to the Regt and its officers. At Waterloo some 10 or more men served as bat men and 11 as soldier servants.
     
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  18. 348 White

    348 White Member

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    Keep reading things that seem to click. Re the possible German birth of John: The 33rd was based in Germany for several months in the German areas of Swedish Pommerania and Mecklenburg in the later part of 1813.
     
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  19. Ma-dotcom

    Ma-dotcom A Bonza Little Digger!

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    Welcome in 348 White, you come with interesting information. C|:-)
     
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  20. 348 White

    348 White Member

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    Curious as to whether the Harris's made the battle site before or just after the action. Supposedly some of the 95th's camp followers crossed the site after the fighting.
     
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