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Elizabeth Morgan of Herefordshire.

Discussion in 'Herefordshire' started by Half Hour, Mar 3, 2014.

  1. Half Hour

    Half Hour Well-Known Member

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    Which family is Elizabeth’s ?

    From her marriage certificate, Elizabeth Morgan’s father is recorded as Thomas, a labourer. Elizabeth married Joseph Prince on January 31st, 1865 in the Parish Church, Ballingham, Herefordshire..According to the marriage cert. She was 23 , he was 30. ( therefore born about 1842?)

    Census records going forward…
    1871... ( 22/4/2600/46/1) Elizabeth Prince , 32 born abt.1839, Betere,( original looks like Belire) Herefordshire ( from previous forum it was suggested it is Tretire which is in the Ross area)
    1881..(22/2523/69/6) Elizabeth Prince, 42, born abt. 1839, Ross (Glos Westbury) Hereford
    1891...( 22/2005/136/6) 43 born about 1848 [really out!}, Herefordshire
    1911... With Jane’s help, on post about a daughter, Mary Elizabeth Prince.. Her birth place is recorded as Hillsely? Ross…Rg14/14993 schedule 181
    http://www.genealogy-specialists.com/threads/5-is-more-than-a-crowd.889/#post-28092

    I do not have her death certificate ( which wouldn’t tell me anymore about the Morgan family--I don’t think) … but I believe she is the Elizabeth Prince who died 3rd qtr. 1920 in Bristol. Age 73... Which would make her born 1847...

    So… from all these I know to search for a family with Elizabeth Morgan, born sometime between 1839 and 1849!!! Somewhere around Ross , Herefordshire. With a father named Thomas. ---the only thing I am over 90% sure is real .

    I have searched and searched, but how will I know I have the correct family with all the Morgan families in that area?. ..
    2 of the contenders in 1851 are

    Household 15/piece1976 folio 49 pg. 5 with
    Thomas Morgan ….36
    Elizabeth Morgan…38
    Mary Ann….11
    Elizabeth….6 * ( 1845) ( born Ross)
    Ellen…. 4
    George…2
    James 3 m ( mistranscribed as 34--same age as parents!!)


    Household 42 piece 1979 folio 277 pg.11
    Thomas Morgan…. 44
    Elizabeth Morgan….32
    Ann…12
    Elizabeth …10* ( born Weobley- which Chimp says is not very close to Ross)
    Thomas ..18 ( either a mis-trans for 8 or son from previous marriage for Thomas snr.)
    Mary ..6
    Caroline…4
    Jane…3
    John…1
    And a lodger…

    There are also other Morgan families in the area and just over in East Dean Gloucestershire with a father Thomas and daughter Elizabeth.

    Does anyone have any helpful solutions?

    Family lore is this Morgan family has ties to Captain Morgan ( but we don’t talk about him!) and I would like to prove or disprove this by the family reunion in August.
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2014
  2. Ma-dotcom

    Ma-dotcom A Bonza Little Digger!

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    I followed your Morgans back to 1841 when Mary Ann was the only child b.1840.
    HO107; Piece: 431; Book: 13; Civil Parish: Tretire With Michaelchurch; County: Herefordshire; Enumeration District: 10; Folio: 4; Page: 3;

    She (Mary Ann) is present in 1851 but not with surety after that. Several deaths in 1850s 3 in Ross, 5 in Hereford. Same with following parents after 1861, if one parent died & the other married, they don't show up readily.
    Elizabeth Morgan 6
    HO107; Piece: 1976; Folio: 49; Page: 5
    Elizabeths age seems to be 1845ish

    1861
    Elizabeth Morgan 17
    RG 9; Piece: 1815; Folio: 101; Page: 1;

    ELizabeths brother James is a good bet for marrying Mary Preece Dec. 1872 Ross 6a-963. They are to be found in Gloucestershire in 1901 with 2 daughters. RG13; Piece: 4922; Folio: 139; Page: 1.

    Is it possible she married someone else? So many Thomas Morgans about fathering Elizabeths :rolleyes:
     
  3. Half Hour

    Half Hour Well-Known Member

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    Not sure if that is "my" Elizabeth Morgan, Wendy. That is my problem... I am fairly certain she is the one I want going by her place of birth stated on following censuses, and I have found a baptism on Forest of Dean for the same Elizabeth in 1844, her sister Ellen in 1846. Both baptisms say Thomas is a labourer, as do census records and her marriage cert. maybe I will never know for certain if I have the correct Morgan family... I know Elizabeth Morgan and Joseph Prince are correct ..hubby's gr. grandparents.
    There are some jumbled trees with some of the Morgan families on Ancestry, but people have not checked all their facts :(
     
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  4. Ma-dotcom

    Ma-dotcom A Bonza Little Digger!

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    I do now remember your saying about this couple Elizabeth & Joseph. didn't go checking elsewhere, had to go 'plate up' the dog casserole & freeze some of it.

    Have you followed any sibs at all to see if they 'meet up' elsewhere, censuses or marriages etc? Any likely witnesses at the marriage?
    I'm off to baptisms now.
     
  5. Half Hour

    Half Hour Well-Known Member

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    Here's a copy of the marriage cert.... One witness signature looks like Eliza Prince...the other............???
    I am away all day so if someone kindly tries to figure anything out, sorry I won't be back until most of you are sound asleep ;)
     

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  6. Sandiep

    Sandiep Well-Known Member

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    think it might be William Prince
     
  7. Daft Bat

    Daft Bat Administrator. Chief cook & bottle washer! Staff Member

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    Although it really is a mess, those were my thoughts as well. :)
     
  8. Sandiep

    Sandiep Well-Known Member

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    [

    1861
    Elizabeth Morgan 17
    RG 9; Piece: 1815; Folio: 101; Page: 1;

    this family that Wendy has found do seem to be a good possible
     
  9. Half Hour

    Half Hour Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I have the same family for 1861 as my main possibility I just want to be sure!! They match with the first one I mention for 1851 and the one mentioned in post #2 by Wendy, that I also have .... I'm glad others feel like I do and I wonder if I keep searching back if I can find the correct marriage.. Family Search has a marriage of Thomas Morgan and Elizabeth Wyles on Apr. 3 1838 in Dilwyn, Hereford but there is a tree on Ancestry with the 2nd Morgan family from 1851 census that I mentioned in post #1..... I think I can rule them out as they seemed to stay in Dilwyn.
    Sandiep and Daft Bat..I also thought what you did re the witnesses on the marriage cert. So far I have not found any other baptisms and no marriages on the forest of Dean site..
    What I really need is to find just one instance where a nice clergyman put down mother Elizabeth's maiden name!
    Yea...in my dreamso_O
     
  10. Lusmum

    Lusmum Active Member

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    Try going sideways and find Elizabeth's children after they are married sometimes a grandparent turns up staying with one
     
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  11. Half Hour

    Half Hour Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I have been trying that as well with Elizabeth ( the mother) Have gone with Elizabeth the daughter's children, but she only had 3 that I can find, one being hubby's grandmother. Really need Herefordshire Parish Registers or a sugar daddy to send me on a trip over there to search until I find ;)
     
  12. Lusmum

    Lusmum Active Member

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    I searched the Hereford baptisms on find my past but didn't find an Elizabeth Morgan. They don't have full records.
     
  13. Half Hour

    Half Hour Well-Known Member

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    The only place I found her was the Forest of Dean baptisms....if that in fact is my Elizabeth and I believe it is. :) As I said above, I only found her and Ellen...the rest must have been baptised elsewhere as they moved about.
     
  14. wasozed

    wasozed New Member

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    Two things from the marriage cert.
    The husband is shown as living in Sussex ?
    Have you looked at the parish register or got someone to do it for you ? there may be other clues there. Although the GRO is regarded as gospel as it were, it is still third hand, ie parish register, local registrar and then GRO.

    Ed
     
  15. Half Hour

    Half Hour Well-Known Member

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    Hi Ed.
    Welcome to TopDog!
    Thanks for your interest.. That is actually Westbury on Severn where the husband was living. ;)
    I have only seen what little I can find on the internet as I don't have any contacts any closer that could check it out for me. As you can see from my location, for me a day trip is out of the question. :( Any and all help is appreciated... Thanks again.
     
  16. wasozed

    wasozed New Member

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    You are right of course. I could not blow the image up si it looked like Worthing Sussex to me. Obviously wasted my money on these new specs
    However haven't looked at the lds catalogue but if they have filmed the records then you could look at it at a FHC providing of course it doesn't involve a journey on the trans pacific railway.

    Cheers. Ed
     
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  17. Sheila Greig

    Sheila Greig New Member

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    I realise that is an old post you may well have solved this by now, but I attach a list of all Elizabeth Morgans registered in Herefordshire between 1839 and 1849 hoping it may be of some help.

    Sheila
     

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  18. Half Hour

    Half Hour Well-Known Member

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    Thank you, @Sheila Greig ! Welcome to Top Dog! I will look it over after I print it off... As you are in Herefordshire I may contact you about other family as well if possible, it just might be a bit as I have lots of company from now until the middle of Sept. so will be elsewhere. I appreciate this! Folks sure weren't original with names back then, were they? :D:D
     
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  19. Sheila Greig

    Sheila Greig New Member

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    No..not much imagination, probably had more important things to worry about. Happy to help if I can. I'm at the Archive centre most weeks as I volunteer there.
     

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