1841 census look up help

T

The Artful Dodger

R.I.P.
Can I ask for a look up for a family in 1841, please?

I have the family in 1851 and later. Here is what I know:
1] 1851 census - H0107/1840/405/47 - living in Trowbridge, Wiltshire.
2] John and Mary Chapman were married in West Lavington, Wiltshire - her maiden name DRAPER - 7 August 1831. I have a copy of the marriage register and a witness was one James Chapman.
3] I have the baptism register for Mary as 2 July 1797 in West Lavington.
4] I have a baptism in Holt, Wiltshire for a John Chapman - parents James & Mary - 2 February 1800.
5] I have a baptism - in Holt, Wiltshire - for a Jane Chapman 19 August 1832. Parents - John & Mary.
6] I have a baptism - in Bradford on Avon, Wiltshire - for a Jemima Chapman 3 September 1834. Parents - John & Mary.

Holt, Wiltshire is 2 miles northeast of Bradford on Avon.

I am at the moment only trying to find John and Mary along with daughters Jane and Jemima in 1841. It is likely to be in Bradford on Avon, but I am having difficulty locating the census.
 
The address looks like Top Rank, Bradford, Winsley, Wiltshire.

John Chapman, aged 30, Lab, Y (to born in county)
Mary Chapman, aged 30, Clo W (??), Y
Jemima Chapman, aged 6, Y

HO 107, Piece 1166, Book 8, Folio 6, page 18
 
Daft Bat said:
The address looks like Top Rank, Bradford, Winsley, Wiltshire.

John Chapman, aged 30, Lab, Y (to born in county)
Mary Chapman, aged 30, Clo W (??), Y
Jemima Chapman, aged 6, Y

HO 107, Piece 1166, Book 8, Folio 6, page 18
Click to expand...

That is interesting, Jan and I thank you.

May I ask now for an opinion on the 1851 census - reference in post #1 - and the relationships of the 2 youngsters - Frederick and John?

The Archivist is convinced that although John Chapman was bapt. 1800 and Mary Draper was bapt. 1797 that they are the parents of the 2 youngsters. If the marriage record [1831] and baptism records [1797 & 1800] are for this couple - then Mary the mother is an unlikely scenario.

Am I confusing you?
 
Huncamunca said:
There were lots of Clo Ws around so I would guess they are cloth workers in the local woollen industry.

The Bradford page of the Wiltshire OPC site (in the 'Employment and Business' section) has an article on the woollen industry:

http://www.
wiltshire-opc.org.uk/genealogy/index.php/parish-directory/item/331-bradford-on-avon
Click to expand...

You are correct - both John and Mary in later census records indicate such an occupation.
 
The Artful Dodger said:
May I ask now for an opinion on the 1851 census - reference in post #1 - and the relationships of the 2 youngsters - Frederick and John?

The Archivist is convinced that although John Chapman was bapt. 1800 and Mary Draper was bapt. 1797 that they are the parents of the 2 youngsters. If the marriage record [1831] and baptism records [1797 & 1800] are for this couple - then Mary the mother is an unlikely scenario.

Am I confusing you?
Click to expand...
Hmmm

The archivist migt well be convinced that these two were baptised 1797 and 1800 respecively, but 1841 shows their ages as 30 (rounded down) and 10 years later in 1851, they are 41 and 40. This certainly makes Mary the possible/probable mother of 4 year old Frederick and one year old John.

What are their ages in later censuses?
 
The Artful Dodger said:
4] I have a baptism in Holt, Wiltshire for a John Chapman - parents James & Mary - 2 February 1800.
Click to expand...
Family Search has a baptism in Holt, Wiltshire for a John Chapman - parents John and Mary - for 1811, which would seem to fit better for the John discussed above. (Batch number: C32082-8)
 
Daft Bat said:
Family Search has a baptism in Holt, Wiltshire for a John Chapman - parents John and Mary - for 1811, which would seem to fit better for the John discussed above. (Batch number: C32082-8)
Click to expand...

Yes it does - but then is there also a brother to this John Chapman named James who was witness at the wedding in West Lavington?

The Archivist is trying to convince me that he married a lady 14 years older than he and ms-stated her age in future censuses right to her burial in 1878, when age was stated as 71
 
The Artful Dodger said:
Yes it does - but then is there also a brother to this John Chapman named James who was witness at the wedding in West Lavington?
Click to expand...
No idea - you will need to do a bit more digging. :D

By the way, how do you know that the James who was a witness was a brother? I have a marriage where it was a cousin who was the witness. ;)
 
Bradford on Avon would come under the Trowbridge registration district.
The Wiltshire BMDs website has birth registrations in that district for
  • Frederick Chapman (1846)
  • John H. Chapman (1849)
Their mother's maiden name is given as BAYNTON.
 
Huncamunca said:
Bradford on Avon would come under the Trowbridge registration district.
The Wiltshire BMDs website has birth registrations in that district for
  • Frederick Chapman (1846)
  • John H. Chapman (1849)
Their mother's maiden name is given as BAYNTON.
Click to expand...
Then that looks like it is a different family.
 
The Artful Dodger said:
The Archivist is trying to convince me that he married a lady 14 years older than he and ms-stated her age in future censuses right to her burial in 1878, when age was stated as 71
Click to expand...

Thank you - Daft Bat & Huncamunca.

Does the mother's maiden name BAYNTON show for a birth registration for Julia - A-J q. 1851 in Trowbridge?
 
Sorry Colin, I am confusing myself now. The Wiltshire BMD site shows the subdistrict as Trowbridge, but Ancestry's version of FreeBMD gives the district as Melksham. To add to the confusion, Bradford on Avon was its own registration district until 1936, when it became part of the Trowbridge district.

I will go back to sleep now!:oops:
 
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Huncamunca said:
Sorry Colin, I am confusing myself now. The Wiltshire BMD site shows the subdistrict as Trowbridge, but Ancestry's version of FreeBMD gives the district as Melksham. To add to the confusion, Bradford on Avon was its own registration district until 1936, when it became part of the Trowbridge district.

I will go back to sleep now!:oops:
Click to expand...

And I have to go out now for a few hours - so leave it be for now.
 
Huncamunca said:
The Wiltshire BMDs website has birth registrations in that district for
  • Frederick Chapman (1846)
  • John H. Chapman (1849)
Their mother's maiden name is given as BAYNTON.
Click to expand...

With the big gap between Jemima and the next known child, I did wonder if John might have married twice. However, I couldn't find a death of Mary #1 and suitable remarriage to Mary #2.

Then I found this marriage, so think there was only one Mary after all:

Mary Bainton and John Chapman married at Bradford on Avon on 12 November 1832 according to a transcript from Ancestry's 'Wiltshire, England, Marriages, 1538-1837' . Both were single and of the parish.

P.S. as this marriage was after the baptism of Jane Chapman at Holt (post #1) perhaps she belonged to the other John & Mary who had married at West Lavington.
 
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Huncamunca said:
as this marriage was after the baptism of Jane Chapman at Holt (post #1) perhaps she belonged to the other John & Mary who had married at West Lavington.
Click to expand...

Looking for a Jane Chapman of around the right age in 1841, there's one in Holt with a John & Mary Chapman (HO 107/1166, book 4, f.11, p.14) [Ancestry gives the reference as f.10 p.13]:

John Chapman, 30, clothworker
Mary Chapman, 28, cloth marker(?)
Jane do, 8
Agatha do, 6
Susan Ann do, 4
Willm do, 2
(all born in the county)

In the previous household is another older John & Mary Chapman, perhaps parents of John jr, with some younger children still at home.
 
On further investigation I don't think the John & Mary Chapman in Holt are the ones who married in West Lavington either.

Ancestry's Wiltshire marriages database quoted above also has, in Holt on 23 April 1832, the marriage of John Chapman and Mary Harler. Wiltshire BMDs gives HORLER as the mother's maiden name for a William Chapman whose birth was registered 1839, which would fit with the 2 year old William in Holt in 1841.
 
Much of the responses on this thread are tending to convince me that the Wiltshire Archivist - who by their own admission - are adding more confusion than resolution.

Can, somehow, I post edited pieces from the original letter - June 12, 2014 - and the reply I received today - which when combined with my original thread - about Mary Draper - a sad life show why this may - in their opinion be an issue that will never be resolved?
 
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