Finding Betsey Webb 1838
- Thread starter Stafford
- Start date
Flook
A True Gentleman. Rest in Peace.
I have not found an alternative - and it wasn't for the want of looking!
Well I've searched it to death as well and it looks as though you're right. It strikes me as slightly odd that there would be an Elizabeth and a Betsey in the same family - but that's really clutching at straws! It's intriguing and if I come across anything I'll definitely post.
Stafford
Well-Known Member
I believe Elizabeth is actually great grand aunt Eliza Webb, Eliza was baptised in Clapham Holy Trinity on the 2 March 1834, parents William Webb, cordwainer and Jane.
Eliza does not appear in census records until 1861 RG9/363/ folio152p27 together with her daughter Eliza b 1854 in Lambeth, Surrey. Her daughter, Eliza was born on the 21st Sept 1854 and baptised on the 22 Oct 1854 in Holy Trinity, Clapham, Surrey.
So it is possible Betsey is Elizabeth, although I'm frankly becoming very confused!
I cannot find Eliza in 1851. In 1867 she married Alfred Pasby b. 1843 in Brixton. I have traced them through the census and have a possible death for Eliza Pasby in Lambeth in 1914 although I cannot find her in 1911.
Daughter Eliza, is working for the Crabbe family in 1971. RG10/179/folio8/page 9. Cannot find a possible marriage, most records include a father. Eliza was illegitimate.
Is mother Eliza, the Elizabeth mentioned in 1841? Where was she in 1851 and 1911 and what happened to daughter Eliza?
AnnB
Editor in Chief who is Hot off the Press!
I think Eliza Pasby can be found at 44, Brandon Rd., Lambeth in 1911 (transcribed by Ancestry as Parby) RG14 Piece 2104 ED 05 Schedule 392. She is living alone and described as a 78 year old widow.
Ann
Stafford
Well-Known Member
According to the census, Eliza had 3 children, two of whom had died.
I have identified two children born to Eliza and Alfred:
- Catherine Kate Pasby b. 1873 in Brixton d. 1955 in Lambeth
- Henry Alfred Pasby b. 1874 in Brixton d. 1903 in Lambeth
( I'm surprised because the majority of members of the extended family were baptised and married in Holy Trinity, Clapham.)
AnnB
Editor in Chief who is Hot off the Press!
I'm wondering if the child who died may have been this poor little mite -
Lloyd’s Weekly Newspaper 26th May 1878
On Saturday afternoon Mr Payne held an inquest at the Joiners' Arms, Lyham-road, Clapham, concerning the death of Mary Ann Eliza Pasby, aged six, who resided with her parents at 9, Upper Orchard-street, Clapham. On Wednesday afternoon, when returning from school, the deceased was crossing Streatham-place as the carriage of Mr Balme, of Grove-road house, passed along, and was knocked down by the horses, who trampled upon her, breaking her ribs and lacerating the lungs. She died from the injuries. A verdict of "Accidental death" was returned.
Ann
Lloyd’s Weekly Newspaper 26th May 1878
On Saturday afternoon Mr Payne held an inquest at the Joiners' Arms, Lyham-road, Clapham, concerning the death of Mary Ann Eliza Pasby, aged six, who resided with her parents at 9, Upper Orchard-street, Clapham. On Wednesday afternoon, when returning from school, the deceased was crossing Streatham-place as the carriage of Mr Balme, of Grove-road house, passed along, and was knocked down by the horses, who trampled upon her, breaking her ribs and lacerating the lungs. She died from the injuries. A verdict of "Accidental death" was returned.
Ann
Stafford
Well-Known Member
The poor little mite was Eliza's niece, daughter of Thomas and Emma Pasby.
Stafford
Well-Known Member
Definitely looks like a possibility. However I cannot find her on Ancestry. I've used the advanced search but she is not coming up. I had a similar problem with another family located in the same area. I could find them on FMP but not on A.
Flook
A True Gentleman. Rest in Peace.
If in 1851 on Ancestry you enter ROSINA BRIGHTMAN, born 1850, you will get to the address just above Eliza's.
Stafford
Well-Known Member
Sorry Flook, I missed this first time.
Exploring the records I believe this is Elizabeth Rideal Webb b Brixton in 1836. Elizabeth never married. She worked as a governess in Devon and died in Kent in 1900.
Stafford
Well-Known Member
Did I really say that in post #15!
Trawling through marriage records on Ancestry I found a marriage between Anne Webb (minor), daughter of William Webb, shoemaker, to John Cudd, horse keeper, also a minor, on the 9th Dec 1861 in St Mary, Lambeth. Witnesses William Webb and J.L. Gauter. Definitely my William Webb because his signature is the same as his signature on previous children's marriages.
She definitely can't be Anne Webb born on the 19 Mar 1838, daughter of William and Jane, and transcribed as Ann 'Wells' in 1841. So what happened to Anne Webb b. 1838 and where did Anne Webb married 1861 come from?
In 1871 29 year old Ann Cudd, b 1842 in Lambeth is living in Kennington. RG10/669/f40/p34. If this is the correct family Ann would have been 19 when she married. Would a 19 year old be considered a minor?
I know who Ann isn't. She is not Mary Ann Webb, baptised as Marianne Webb on the 2nd May 1852 in Streatham( another surprise find). She married twice, once to James Thomas and finally to James Timothy Tearle. The witness at her second marriage John Bullen, her brother-in-law, is my husband's GGrandfather.
This family is doing my head in!
Yes. Anyone under the age of 21 was a minor. This only changed to 18 with the Matrimonial Causes Act in 1973 (I think).
Flook
A True Gentleman. Rest in Peace.
Just as an almost completely irrelevant aside, J.L. Gauter is in fact James Longman Gawler who was a witness at my GGGGrandfather's marriage in St Mary's in 1837! He's always popping up in those registers
!
Stafford
Well-Known Member
Just as an almost completely irrelevant aside, J.L. Gauter is in fact James Longman Gawler who was a witness at my GGGGrandfather's marriage in St Mary's in 1837! He's always popping up in those registers
Do you think we are related? 
Exhaustion is seeping in. Tough day at work today. 
Stafford
Well-Known Member
Further evidence, although not conclusive, Jane's sister Martha lives nearby in White Square. Jane and Martha married on the same day, so were perhaps very close. Her mother and younger sister live next to Martha.
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