If the headstone is in the wall ... where is the body?
- Thread starter kernowmaid
- Start date
I'm not laughing... I have been checking to see if Wallgrave was the name of the place where she lived in St Mewan....I could be way off mark, but could Wallgrave have been another surname for her, either maiden name or previous married name?
You can all stop laughing now
LianeH
Well-Known Member
Oi, 5, 5” isn’t that short.....is it?As Cornish people are usually of short stature (my Nans family were quite small) then perhaps she IS in the wall. It does say grave.
Although I do agree, I am a West Country girl and my grandmothers side were all shorties, even my dad was only 5, 10” - my mum was not allowed to wear heels or she would tower over him
Archie's Mum
Always digging up clues
I think she is the widow of Peter Vivian, a tailor. Possibly Maria Bray. But can’t find a marriage in that name. Perhaps a second marriage. Doing domestic things at the moment so can’t take a further look. He’s getting hungry.....
Archie's Mum
Always digging up clues
Gee whizz, my Mum was about 5.2 and Dad was about 5.8. His Mum was of tough Cornish stock and his Dad was a Scot. Both shorties.Oi, 5, 5” isn’t that short.....is it?
Grizel
Well-Known Member
She married Peter as Maria Guy, widow in 1846.
Peter buried St Austell 1873.
A Maria Bray married John Guy, St Austell 1832.
I've just had a look at some newspapers for Cornwall in the 1890s, and there are lots of references to wall (or more often 'walled') graves. From a quick read through the article summaries, it seems as though these were graves where after they'd been dug, a wall was built to make a kind of vault. I didn't get as far as looking to see what kind of stones or memorials these may have had.
In this case I wonder if Maria was buried in one of these graves/vaults, but there wasn't enough room to mention her on the existing stone. They couldn't put a stone up on a different grave, so may have had it built into the church wall instead.
Just speculation - but if I'm right, Maria is presumably in a walled grave somewhere in the churchyard, quite likely alongside other family members.
In this case I wonder if Maria was buried in one of these graves/vaults, but there wasn't enough room to mention her on the existing stone. They couldn't put a stone up on a different grave, so may have had it built into the church wall instead.
Just speculation - but if I'm right, Maria is presumably in a walled grave somewhere in the churchyard, quite likely alongside other family members.
LianeH
Well-Known Member
My mother in law is 5’ 1 1/2 (the half is very important
) and both her sons are 6’3”. She used to stand on the 3rd stair so she could be eyeball to eyeball but they just used to pick her up and put her down on the floor. Btw father in law was only 5’10” so goodness know where hubby’s height came from....the milkman?
I live in a terrace house built in the 1840s. Light bulbs can be changed without standing on anything if you are lucky to be taller than me.
Going up the stairs would knock the head off a person if you didn't duck. Not a problem for me.
I am 5 ft 2 1/2 and shrinking.
Going up the stairs would knock the head off a person if you didn't duck. Not a problem for me.
I am 5 ft 2 1/2 and shrinking.
kernowmaid
Our very own Cornish Maid
And the answer to my question is:
"I don't know, I've often wondered that myself"
I bumped into the vicar today ... and she's lovely! (She even clambered onto the tombstone I was photographing to have a look from above
)
She thinks that Maria is probably buried somewhere in the area in front of the wall - which is apparently an extension added in the 1900's - and that there was no room, so they put her headstone in the wall.
She also walked all the way back to the Rectory to bring me her copy of the "Burial Ground Index" which lists ALL the names & burial years. It was done in 1999 by a member of the congregation & his wife (updated 2005, 2010 & 2017) but they won't put it on the internet. They won't even allow her to leave a copy in the Church (as she does with her other churches in the Parish).
Why?
"Because the Jehovah's Witnesses might get hold of it."
Sounds to me more like a case of "We did it, it's ours."
And she gave me a PLAN of the graveyard, so that when I need to verify a stone, I can identify the area. (It's "colour coded")
And the stories she told me about her "customers" ... complaints that someone was buried "the wrong way round" because the stone was at the foot, not the head. (Otherwise, it couldn't be read.)
I didn't realise that being a Vicar was so confrontational!
Certainly wouldn't suit me - being tactful is not in my genes.
Jane
"I don't know, I've often wondered that myself"
I bumped into the vicar today ... and she's lovely! (She even clambered onto the tombstone I was photographing to have a look from above
)She thinks that Maria is probably buried somewhere in the area in front of the wall - which is apparently an extension added in the 1900's - and that there was no room, so they put her headstone in the wall.
She also walked all the way back to the Rectory to bring me her copy of the "Burial Ground Index" which lists ALL the names & burial years. It was done in 1999 by a member of the congregation & his wife (updated 2005, 2010 & 2017) but they won't put it on the internet. They won't even allow her to leave a copy in the Church (as she does with her other churches in the Parish).
Why?
"Because the Jehovah's Witnesses might get hold of it."
Sounds to me more like a case of "We did it, it's ours."
And she gave me a PLAN of the graveyard, so that when I need to verify a stone, I can identify the area. (It's "colour coded")
And the stories she told me about her "customers" ... complaints that someone was buried "the wrong way round" because the stone was at the foot, not the head. (Otherwise, it couldn't be read.)
I didn't realise that being a Vicar was so confrontational!
Certainly wouldn't suit me - being tactful is not in my genes.
Jane
kernowmaid
Our very own Cornish Maid
I now have a mental image of her hoiking up a pristine white cassock to climb up on top of the tombstone
She sounds my kind of vicar, shame she couldn't solve the mystery for you (and the rest of us).
Change that image!
Make it a little "round" lady in old black anorak & trousers, with a bunch of keys in her hand.
I've just realised - when I met her, she was on her way to unlock the church. After chatting to me, going back for the records, then leaving at the same time as me (still chatting
) ... the church didn't get unlocked! OOOPS! Hope she remembered later!
Jane
She sounds like the best!! I bet she asks around to see if anyone can answer your question. Too bad they don't have more of her to help us out.! There are churches here in Ontario that I have sent letters and emails to and they have never replied.
By the way.. I think the JW is an excuse as well..why would they want a copy of the book? !
By the way.. I think the JW is an excuse as well..why would they want a copy of the book? !
I expect that they are confusing them with the Mormons and Family Search.