Thomas Chasmer d 1834 Bermondsey London UK

Godfrey Chasmer said:
IF THE DNA RESULTS CAN BE TRUSTED THIS IS A NEGATIVE TO THOMAS (D1834) HAVING HIS ROOTS IN KENT.
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Ethnicity in DNA results are estimates only, and are not necessarily accurate or complete to that level of detail. My aunt's DNA matches indicate my 3 x g grandfather was scottish but I have no scottish in my ethinicity results at all.

If you haven't done it already, the best way to use DNA is to identify people who match with you who match ancestors on your father's side and then find those who also match more recent ancestors on your Chasmer line. Eventually working backwards with shared matches you might find some who give clues to your 4x g grandparents through Thomas's siblings. If you have a relative (male or female) who can test who is a generation closer to Thomas, the chances of finding such matches in their list is higher
 
There is a family tree on Ancestry which suggests that Mary CHASMER is actually the daughter of Robert ROBERTSON & Ann WILLIS. Robert ROBERTSON married Ann WILLIS at St Anne & St Agnes, London on 12 November 1795. There is a baptism at St John Horsleydown in 1809 for Robert son of Robert & Ann ROBERTSON, Carpenter, but the parish registers of St John on Ancestry only start in 1806, so Mary would not show up on the Ancestry parish register images. Burial at St John Horsleydown on 11 March 1810 for a Robert ROBERTSON, aged 41.

Janet
 
There are a couple of trees around having Thomas Chasmer and Ann Primmer as his parents. Looking through the family there are a few names repeated down through the generations. Thomas born 1755 has a brother Robert. Thomas and Ann Primmer had a son Robert. They also had a Charles.
Your Thomas(1834) had a Thomas who also had a Charles.
Robert son of Thomas (1755) had a daughter Charlotte, who I believe emigrated to Australia. William seems to be repeated as well. So you see names repeating quite regularly which kind of points to Thomas and Ann Primmer being the ancestors. I know, no actual proof. As for Sarah, Thomas had an Aunt Sally. Sally and Sarah are often used for the one person. Ie baptised Sarah but called Sally.
All of the above seem to be born in Benenden.
 
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There is a tree on Family Search for Thomas Chasmar and Ann Primer. Thomas and Ann married in 1776 and their first was Robert born in 1777. However before Robert on the tree is a daughter Elizabeth Morris born 1770 in Cranbrook Kent 6 years before they married. Ann Primer may have been married before, her maiden name being Morris. Possible?
 
Baptism at Cranbrook St Dunstan on 25 April 1770 for Elizabeth daughter of William & Ann MORRIS. Burial at Cranbrook on 30 June 1782 for a William MORRIS. Not too sure how this fits in with the Tree you found on Ancestry, Sue. Thomas CHASMAR married Ann PRIMER at Benenden on 31 December 1776 by licence. Full image available to view on FMP. Baptism at Hawkhurst, Kent on 1 April 1753 of an Ann daughter of William & Elizabeth PRIMMER which could be relevant as Hawkhurst is not too far from Benenden.

Have you looked through the Apprenticeship records to see if you can find any trace of an apprenticeship for your Thomas? For example, there is a Thomas CHASEMORE who was apprenticed in 1775 to a Hugh SKINNER of Fulborough, Cordwainer. There is also a Joseph CHASMER who was apprenticed in 1771 to a Joseph SIRED of Aston Clinton, Kent, Cordwainer. It may be another avenue for you to explore.

Janet
 
Archie's Mum said:
Hard to find and not sure if you have these from other on line enquiries but in 1861 Thomas surname is listed as CHARMER born 1815 St Olave, bookmaker Weston Street Bermondsey.
1851 he is Thomas CHASONER, Weston Street Bermondsey, cordwainer.
1841 he is Thomas Chasmer born Surrey. With him is (mother) Ann Chasmer born 1777 Surrey but also there is 38 year old Mary Chasmer born 1803. Might be interesting to find out who she is. You only have two other siblings for Thomas and Mary isn’t one. Thomas’ father married in 1810. Maybe daughter of Ann’s previous marriage?
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Thank you for your comments.Thomas was indeed born in St Olave in 1815 being the son of Ann (b1778) who had a daughter Mary from her first marriage. Ann's husband and Thomas's father (also Thomas) is the one I am struggling with to find any reference to his place of birth, date of birth and parent's names.
 
Archie's Mum said:
Hard to find and not sure if you have these from other on line enquiries but in 1861 Thomas surname is listed as CHARMER born 1815 St Olave, bookmaker Weston Street Bermondsey.
1851 he is Thomas CHASONER, Weston Street Bermondsey, cordwainer.
1841 he is Thomas Chasmer born Surrey. With him is (mother) Ann Chasmer born 1777 Surrey but also there is 38 year old Mary Chasmer born 1803. Might be interesting to find out who she is. You only have two other siblings for Thomas and Mary isn’t one. Thomas’ father married in 1810. Maybe daughter of Ann’s previous marriage?
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janetbooth said:
Baptism at Cranbrook St Dunstan on 25 April 1770 for Elizabeth daughter of William & Ann MORRIS. Burial at Cranbrook on 30 June 1782 for a William MORRIS. Not too sure how this fits in with the Tree you found on Ancestry, Sue. Thomas CHASMAR married Ann PRIMER at Benenden on 31 December 1776 by licence. Full image available to view on FMP. Baptism at Hawkhurst, Kent on 1 April 1753 of an Ann daughter of William & Elizabeth PRIMMER which could be relevant as Hawkhurst is not too far from Benenden.

Have you looked through the Apprenticeship records to see if you can find any trace of an apprenticeship for your Thomas? For example, there is a Thomas CHASEMORE who was apprenticed in 1775 to a Hugh SKINNER of Fulborough, Cordwainer. There is also a Joseph CHASMER who was apprenticed in 1771 to a Joseph SIRED of Aston Clinton, Kent, Cordwainer. It may be another avenue for you to explore.

Janet
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Thanks for the information Janet. I have spent time following through the data in the various apprentice records but none remotely fit the dates for the Thomas Chasmers in Kent who may be my Thomas in Bermondsey who died in 1834. My Thomas has a birth date of something like
janetbooth said:
Baptism at Cranbrook St Dunstan on 25 April 1770 for Elizabeth daughter of William & Ann MORRIS. Burial at Cranbrook on 30 June 1782 for a William MORRIS. Not too sure how this fits in with the Tree you found on Ancestry, Sue. Thomas CHASMAR married Ann PRIMER at Benenden on 31 December 1776 by licence. Full image available to view on FMP. Baptism at Hawkhurst, Kent on 1 April 1753 of an Ann daughter of William & Elizabeth PRIMMER which could be relevant as Hawkhurst is not too far from Benenden.

Have you looked through the Apprenticeship records to see if you can find any trace of an apprenticeship for your Thomas? For example, there is a Thomas CHASEMORE who was apprenticed in 1775 to a Hugh SKINNER of Fulborough, Cordwainer. There is also a Joseph CHASMER who was apprenticed in 1771 to a Joseph SIRED of Aston Clinton, Kent, Cordwainer. It may be another avenue for you to explore.

Janet
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janetbooth said:
Baptism at Cranbrook St Dunstan on 25 April 1770 for Elizabeth daughter of William & Ann MORRIS. Burial at Cranbrook on 30 June 1782 for a William MORRIS. Not too sure how this fits in with the Tree you found on Ancestry, Sue. Thomas CHASMAR married Ann PRIMER at Benenden on 31 December 1776 by licence. Full image available to view on FMP. Baptism at Hawkhurst, Kent on 1 April 1753 of an Ann daughter of William & Elizabeth PRIMMER which could be relevant as Hawkhurst is not too far from Benenden.

Have you looked through the Apprenticeship records to see if you can find any trace of an apprenticeship for your Thomas? For example, there is a Thomas CHASEMORE who was apprenticed in 1775 to a Hugh SKINNER of Fulborough, Cordwainer. There is also a Joseph CHASMER who was apprenticed in 1771 to a Joseph SIRED of Aston Clinton, Kent, Cordwainer. It may be another avenue for you to explore.

Janet
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Thanks for the information Janet. I have spent some time looking at apprentice records but none remotely fit my dates. From data I have collected my Thomas (who died in 1834) was born something near 5oct1780 – 15oct1780. But I cannot find any reference to his DoB, place of birth or parent's names.
 
Grizel said:
Was your archivist able to check the non conformist records in detail, not just baptisms and burials? I believe that many Methodists and other dissenters kept all sorts of detailed records such as lists of members and of various events and activities that may have taken place.

It would be worth starting with the particular congregation that Thomas was part of.
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Thank you for your interest. This is the reply I received from the archivist in 2017:

I have been looking further into Thomas Chasmer, and I am afraid I have been unable to find any further information.

I searched for an obituary in the Wesleyan Conference minutes, and there was none. I have also searched the minutes in the 1820s and 1830s, as they include where preachers are stationed each year; there is no mention of him at all in these decades. It is possible Thomas was involved in another branch of Methodism – eg the New Connexion, which had been founded in the 1790s, or the Primitive Methodists, who date from around 1807. There were also Independent Methodists, and those involved in George Whitefield’s Calvinistic Methodism…. Unfortunately, we don’t have the same level of information about preachers in these parts of Methodism in this period.

However, the clue to this may well be the Dr Williams register. This was not really used by any Methodists, who did not really see themselves as Dissenters until much later in the 19th century, despite the legal separation from the Church of England in 1795. The entry on the Dr Williams register would suggest involvement in an Independent (also known as Congregationalist) or Presbyterian (later Unitarian) or Baptist church. Although the newspaper account refers to Thomas’ being a Methodist, journalists then as now could be hazy about the distinctions between nonconformist churches! As mentioned above, it is also possible he belonged to a branch of Methodism where we don’t have quite as much archival material.

My final theory would be that he was not a preacher as such, and was perhaps a steward – someone with various administrative responsibilities for their chapel, a bit like a churchwarden in the Church of England, or a class leader; Methodist congregations were divided into “classes”, small groups which would meet regularly for bible study, prayer and mutual encouragement, under the pastoral supervision of a leader. Class leaders and stewards were prominent people in their church, so might be thought to be “preachers” by those outside the church and therefore vague about exact roles and responsibilities. Unfortunately, we rarely have records for them in this period.
 
Archie's Mum said:
There is a tree on Family Search for Thomas Chasmar and Ann Primer. Thomas and Ann married in 1776 and their first was Robert born in 1777. However before Robert on the tree is a daughter Elizabeth Morris born 1770 in Cranbrook Kent 6 years before they married. Ann Primer may have been married before, her maiden name being Morris. Possible?
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I find the problem with other people's trees is that they simply copy info from other trees without verifying it or include hunches. In search of my missing information I have messages dozens of people who have listed parents and a DoB for my Thomas (d18340 and not one has been able to offer a reason for putting the info in their tree other than as I say copying it or a hunch. So if I find anything on other trees I check the data before adding it to mine.
 
Hi Godfrey- it looks as though there just maybe not enough information either recorded or transcribed for your Thomas in Bermondsey, as I said privately, and you will have to leave that stub for a few years and see if anything more comes into the records. Tracing the DNA Matches back in time is the best method I know of for trying to crack a Brick Wall. Ethnicity estimates are based on Ancient DNA and are virtually useless for modern day Matches.
 
Grizel said:
https://nonsenselit.com/2017/07/02/edward-lears-canadian-cousins/

I have been taken by the baptism of possible sibling George Augustus Chesner in Whitechapel in 1886. Parents Thomas Chesner and Sarah. Baptism by Joseph Brook Bank , protestant dissenting minister.(FMP)

Possible marriage in 1773 of Thomas Chesner and Sarah Lear.(FS)

This led me to the website about Edward Lear (above) which suggests that when Sarah Chesner (nee Lear)'s mother Margaret died in 1795, Margaret left money to Sarah, and £5 to Sarah's son's Thomas and Charles and a watch to son Henry.
Could Sarah's son Thomas be a possibility for your Thomas?

I don't know how accurate the research is for the Lear website but it may be worth checking on Margaret Lear's 1795 will for yourself.
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I HAVE SPENT MANY HOURS TRYING TO CHECK THE DATA IN THE LINK AS THOMAS SON OF THOMAS CHESNER AND SARAH LEAR COULD INDEED BE MY MISSING THOMAS. SOME INFO MENTIONED I CAN FIND LIKE THE MARRIAGE OF THOMAS AND SARAH AND THE BIRTH OF THEIR SON GEORGE AUGUSTUS BUT I CANNOT FIND ANYTHING RELATING TO THE BIRTH OF THE OTHER SONS THOMAS, CHARLES AND HENRY. NOR CAN I FIND THE WILL MENTIONED. I'LL KEEP LOOKING.
 
In some ways Thomas Chesmer seems a possibility. One concern though is that the Chesmer family do seem fairly wealthy. Would one of the sons become a shoemaker I wonder.....

Googling there is a wikitree maybe worth a look - with a John Linley Chesmer, supposedly another son and a brother to George Augustus Chesner. No mention of a Thomas though.
 
I agree with you unless there was a falling out within the family. It seems unlikely but in family history research odd things do get unearthed.
 
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